Talk:Knights of the Round Table

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I figured I'd get this page rolling with what we'd like to see in the future from Knights. I for one am looking forward to the seperate orders in the Knights. -Sir Naito

It seems most likely that I will be doing the Knights as well as the clerics, and possibly at the same time. I shall have to bide my time and see how the Pentartic Church evolves, since that seems to play a large part into knight development now.

As for the different orders, you may have noticed several undeveloped keeps stationed throughout Avalon. Each of these can be later developed into a keep which houses the different knight orders. The keeps closer to Camelot and the south tend to have knights that are more devout or more social, whereas the keeps farther north tend to b slightly unsociable, but very adept with their weapons.

As noted earlier on the Knight Guild board, I am wanting to separate the knights into developmental structures.

• 1.) Defenders of the Land - Shield, defense, and HP specialists
• 2.) Masters of Arm - weapons experts
• 3.) Mounted Cavalry - horsemanship and better mounts
• 4.) Pure of Heart - Men of Pious Faith, able to turn the undead and perform acts of faith healing
• 5.) Leader of Men - leadership and bonuses to training squires
• 6.) Chosen of Arthur - Housed in Camelot and serve as the leaders among the knights and lords of the realm.

This does not mean that you should jump to conclusions and assume that only the Mounted Cavalry will have mounts, since that would be almost the same as assuming that the Masters of Arms would be the only faction of knights with any weapon specs.

Camelot is at least laid out as far as the rewrite goes, and I am attempting to draw in more for the knights to do around Camelot other than try to defend it against random invasion (which are usually destroyed by time a knight can respond) or to fend off a high level player (which almost never ends well for the knight). I am also attempting to tailor some of the shops to respond to knights differently than how they treat other players. Along with that, I am wanting to bring in a wider assortment of weapons and armour available (specifically to the knights, but also to the masses in general), as well as making the knight NPC's more responsive and interactive. One request already made and taken into consideration is the amount of items that can be 'borrowed', like Excalibur and the Crucifix.--Bladestorm 20:44, 24 December 2008 (EST)

I'm dubious about writing anything down here, not because I don't want to share, but because I've probably shared too much over Knight channel, tells and chats, my pov is pretty well known. Still, a cohesive argument might help:

1.) Defenders of the Land - Shield, defense, and HP specialists
These guys should have magickal resistances too and probably more bonus quests, stuff to do outside of the main city of Camelot.
2.) Masters of Arm - weapons experts
Loose associations with Arthur, LOTS of bonus specs so they can use ALL weapon types (to around the 4th degree). It's not as powerful as it sounds, just adds a nice flexibility.
3.) Mounted Cavalry - horsemanship and better mounts
Mounted combat is amazing. Akin to the familiar system I'd like to see the mounted cavalry select their mount from a list and that mount becomes part of their legend, so it's never 'killed'.
4.) Pure of Heart - Men of Pious Faith, able to turn the undead and perform acts of faith healing Strong ties to the pantarchic church and holy fortitude/holy purity buffs. Higher invocation than normal and access to priesthood spells, cure disease, limb regeneration etc. For the record Knights of the White Cross should be in here :p
5.) Leader of Men - leadership and bonuses to training squires
Similiar to Mounted guys, these guys have a right hand man, a Captain permanently tied to their legend. He's free, permanently kept and will reinc like you if he dies.
6.) Chosen of Arthur - Housed in Camelot and serve as the leaders among the knights and lords of the realm.
Actually I see these guys as either general knight types, similiar to now or the Captains of the other 5, Captains as in the best of the best of the other 5. Possibly more an association available to higher level types with ranks and bonuses similiar to the LHG.

Problems with Knights:
We lost our charge, we lost our weapon honing, yeomen and followers in general aren't up to the job, how many knights bother with the warhorse as it stands? Fine until you're hitting level 30ish and then suddenly your warhorse is getting smited by whatever you're fighting. Yeoman are fun, my main problem with them is they slow me down. Squires are actually ok now I think. I hate that the armoury stuff can't be kept actually and you have to keep heading back to Camelot whenever you login. And I honestly am not looking for buffs, but the current spec stealing on first level is a little annoying, especially for those who aren't Elder races. You're sitting on dex 80 and boom!! jousting, sword, spear and pole arm have just left you with 4 dex points. Of which you'll pick one (usually sword) and have 3 dex points sitting there useless. If for thematic reasons Knights are really gonna have to have those skills, make 'em bonuses, otherwise please drop them.

I've been accused of being power hungry in the past and it's why I've been hesitant to say anything, but my concerns are NOT for Gavadel, I have workarounds and he's a nice character. I worry about the new knights finding an underpowered guild for the lesser races. And it's them the guild should be balanced for, not me. I'm attracted to 'cool stuff' not power :p --Aedhan 08:07, 25 December 2008 (EST)

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You have no idea how many times I hear about something being 'useless', only to find that it is just a feature that slows down the xp/sec grind. Most players max out their dex so that they have better access to combat specs, which means they are among the most dextrous beings on the planet. Compare that to a well-built NPC or mount, who has a normal level of dexterity, and it ends in the players complaining that mounts and followers are too slow, and slow down the xp grind. When you refer to things as useless on account that it 'slows you down', then refer to things as 'underpowered', it definitely comes across that you are power-hungry. And by balancing the guild for the lesser beings, that would put Gavadel much higher on the power scale due to being an Amberite and having 'work-arounds'.

"I played a rather one dimensional approach to my knight, and I only used the sword. I couldn't find enough to do with the other dex spec requirements, so I never really used them that much and found myself wanting to have those spec points back so I could further specialize in my weapon of choice, which is sword. If there were more opportunities to use the other forced-specs, and more weapons to use with them, that would be better." - This comes across much better than outright demanding that the specs be dropped. Just trying to help you out with the reputation you seem to have of power-mongering.  :)

Anywho, a proposed balance of the issues. Honing is pretty much gone, due to how the current combat and weapon system is now set up. Charge just needs massive amounts of work. In the interim, I can add in a better variety of knightly weapons, better variety of armour, and perhaps some variations on the mounts (no, there will not be pterripi). The LHG has set up a lot of things that can be taken into account with the knights, and at some point there may be an Avalonian Guard protecting the entire island, or I may integrate that code directly into the knight code. There is also the internal ranking system, which I could convert over to a knightly scale, which could include things like jousting tournaments, guild-quests, activities in the Courts of Camelot, training squires and yeomen, etc.

And I am vehemently opposed to just handing out bonus specs just because soemthing is thematic and shouldn't interefere with the freewill of individual character development. There are several methods that the bonus specs can be earned, such as how the wandslinger have their ka, Nizari have their boons, and travs have their in-guild quests. What I am digging into solving would be the conditions upon which any bonus specs would be offered, and whether or not to make them blatantly obvious, or part of something to be discovered along the way.

I am also contemplating changing the initiation requirements for the guild. Instead of just a simple check behind the scenes to determine if you have the proper stats and specs available, the guildmaster can send you on a series of tasks to prove yourself. Size would be an almost immediate determination, since that would be obvious. A test of strength of arm and skill with a sword could be flagged via mock combat, and a test of your riding ability can be establish by a riding circuit.

One thing I would like to do would be to develop the personalities of the NPC knights, so that they are more than a knightly name, some knightly gear, and a set of stats/skills. It would be nice to have some new knights simply wandering around Camelot, digging into the back stories of the named knights, deciphering clues, and going on miniquests that completely immerse them into the world of Camelot and Avalon. As the knights advance in level and become more worldly, their quests can expand as well, so that they end up doing diplomatic duties to the faraway land of Liathyr or take part on a mission to counterattack Esartur.--Bladestorm 13:56, 25 December 2008 (EST)

That sounds awesome, it involves such an immersive world where you could get totally lost.--Sir Naito