Weapon Geometry - Revision history

Fungor at 12:40, 13 June 2017

Fungor — Tue, 13 Jun 2017 12:40:40 GMT

←Older revision		Revision as of 12:40, 13 June 2017
Line 4:		Line 4:
	**Axe = stick with a heavy wedge on it		**Axe = stick with a heavy wedge on it
	**Mace = stick with a heavy turd on it		**Mace = stick with a heavy turd on it
-	**Hammer = stick with a heavy cylinder on it	+	**Hammer = stick with a heavy cylinder (or spike) on it
	**I expect a hammer or mace to weigh more than an axe, but not massively so, probably between 1 and 2 times the mass on the striking end, with a comparable haft, the biggest difference being the shape of the striking surface.		**I expect a hammer or mace to weigh more than an axe, but not massively so, probably between 1 and 2 times the mass on the striking end, with a comparable haft, the biggest difference being the shape of the striking surface.
	**A weapon that is weighs vastly more than a sword for example, shouldn't fall into the same "size" category despite being of comparable size. (I can swing a 15 foot pool noodle with more accuracy and speed than I can a 5 foot solid iron bar, this would still be true if I was strong enough to lift said bar)		**A weapon that is weighs vastly more than a sword for example, shouldn't fall into the same "size" category despite being of comparable size. (I can swing a 15 foot pool noodle with more accuracy and speed than I can a 5 foot solid iron bar, this would still be true if I was strong enough to lift said bar)

Fungor: changes

Fungor — Mon, 12 Jun 2017 21:10:09 GMT

changes

←Older revision		Revision as of 21:10, 12 June 2017
Line 1:		Line 1:
-	Some data points about weapons weight.	+	Hypothesis (read as: my whiny complaint)
		+	*Giant Hammers are stupidly heavy and it's dumb and upsets me and I want someone to change it so that I can use them without large encumbrance penalties.
		+	*my reasoning
		+	**Axe = stick with a heavy wedge on it
		+	**Mace = stick with a heavy turd on it
		+	**Hammer = stick with a heavy cylinder on it
		+	**I expect a hammer or mace to weigh more than an axe, but not massively so, probably between 1 and 2 times the mass on the striking end, with a comparable haft, the biggest difference being the shape of the striking surface.
		+	**A weapon that is weighs vastly more than a sword for example, shouldn't fall into the same "size" category despite being of comparable size. (I can swing a 15 foot pool noodle with more accuracy and speed than I can a 5 foot solid iron bar, this would still be true if I was strong enough to lift said bar)
		+	**A weapon scaled up for use by a larger/stronger wielder would have a longer haft, comparable sturdiness (technology permitting) and would probably weigh more, but I would still expect axes, maces, and hammers to maintain constant relative weights as they scaled up.
		+
		+	Process
		+	*I collected some weapons and looked at them while holding them.
		+	*Here be some data points about weapon weights.

	==Tremendous==		==Tremendous==
Line 12:		Line 24:
	*Og Stuff		*Og Stuff
	Giant Iron Hammer 277.50 1.95 across, 12 long (from the smith)		Giant Iron Hammer 277.50 1.95 across, 12 long (from the smith)
-	Giant Club 117.00 2.75 across, 23.5 long	+	Giant Wooden Club 117.00 2.75 across, 23.5 long
	Giant black oak staff 61.20 1.80 across, 27 long (Bilga, material probably varies)		Giant black oak staff 61.20 1.80 across, 27 long (Bilga, material probably varies)
	Giant Obsidian Axe 48.75 0.7 wide, 20 long		Giant Obsidian Axe 48.75 0.7 wide, 20 long
Line 43:		Line 55:
	*Storm Rock		*Storm Rock
	Bronze Great Flail 28.45 0.60 across, 12 long		Bronze Great Flail 28.45 0.60 across, 12 long
-	Bronze Greataxe 27.15 0.85 wide, 12.5 long	+	Bronze Greataxe 27.15 0.85 wide, 12.5 long
	Mithril Greataxe 8.79 0.65 wide, 14 long		Mithril Greataxe 8.79 0.65 wide, 14 long
	*LH Grebor's Smithy		*LH Grebor's Smithy
Line 56:		Line 68:
	Bronze Flail 20.85 0.70 across, 6.40 long		Bronze Flail 20.85 0.70 across, 6.40 long
	Mithril Flail 15.45 0.70 across, 6.45 long		Mithril Flail 15.45 0.70 across, 6.45 long
-
-
-	Hypothesis (read as: my whiny complaint)
-	*Hammers are stupidly heavy and it's dumb and upsets me and I want someone to change it.
-	*Axe = stick with a heavy blade on it
-	*Mace = stick with a heavy turd on it
-	*Hammer = stick with a heavy cylinder on it
-	*I expect a hammer or mace's weight relative to an axe's to be between 1.0 and 1.5ish?
-	*If I made a "bigger" weapon for a larger/stronger wielder I'd use a longer haft and a heavier blade/turd/cylinder but expect the weight ratios to stay the same. Unless I was in Azeroth.
-
-	Process
-	*I collected some weapons and looked at them while holding them.

	Conclusions		Conclusions
-	*Material obviously plays a huge role in weight, compare Giant fiery steel mace with Hlerbani for a 90kg difference, or adamantite vs. fiery steel weapons.	+	*Material obviously plays a role in determining the weight, the dimensions also vary, which is weird and confusing.
-	*A lot of weapons don't have distinct haft-materials, this can affect different weapons more or less based on geometry. I have no idea to what degree this matters.	+	*Material seems to have a larger effect on lighter weapons than heavier ones: A Giant Fiery Steel Hammer weighs 27% more than the comparable adamantite one, Meanwhile the GFS Sword weighs 59% more than it's adamantite equivalent.
-	*Weapon size category either has nothing, or very little to do with weight. (this isn't a surprise, but it's dumb is what I'm saying).	+	**Of course, their dimensions differ. And I have relatively few data points to actually consider which makes this not very conclusive of anything.
-	Square Cube rule seems to be affecting certain weapons more than others as their dimensions are scaled up. ((Great Hammer) = 2.45 (Greatsword). (Giant Hammer) = 12.78 * (Giant Sword) lolwat)	+	*A lot of weapons don't have distinct haft-materials, this can affect different weapons more or less based on geometry. I don't know to what degree this matters, but I imagine the biggest impact would be in swords and pole arms.
		+	*Weapon size category either has nothing, or very little to do with weight. This more or less makes sense, since Travelers, kazarzeth and Lightbringers can have giant weapons that weigh practically nothing.
		+	*Square Cube rule seems to be affecting certain weapons more than others as their dimensions are scaled up. (Great Hammer/Great Sword=2.45, Giant Hammer/Giant Sword=12.78 lolwat)
		+	*Weapon design is hugely dependent on history and technology, so it's hard to imagine what a fantasy bludgeon for a significantly-larger than human race (in a magic infused world no less) might actually look like. From a modeling perspective, it could very well make sense that a hammer used by a giant weighs ten times that of a sword used by the same giant. But from a gameplay perspective, Hammers are basically furniture right now unless we spend hours painstakingly infusing them, and that's a bummer.
		+	*Giant hammers/maces/scourges should have their geometry modified until their weight is more comparable to giant axes. So says I.

	Not addressed here		Not addressed here
	*There are a lot of materials that are practically weightless, and that's also dumb nonsense.		*There are a lot of materials that are practically weightless, and that's also dumb nonsense.
	*Weapon weight doesn't directly impact ratings while using it (aside from encumbering you), that's also weird. (maybe it does actually, just speculation on my part)		*Weapon weight doesn't directly impact ratings while using it (aside from encumbering you), that's also weird. (maybe it does actually, just speculation on my part)

Fungor: added a tab

Fungor — Mon, 12 Jun 2017 19:00:06 GMT

added a tab

←Older revision		Revision as of 19:00, 12 June 2017
Line 46:		Line 46:
	Mithril Greataxe 8.79 0.65 wide, 14 long		Mithril Greataxe 8.79 0.65 wide, 14 long
	*LH Grebor's Smithy		*LH Grebor's Smithy
-	Iron Greatsword 19.85 0.80 wide, 0.20 tall, 17 long	+	Iron Greatsword 19.85 0.80 wide, 0.20 tall, 17 long
	==Medium or whatever==		==Medium or whatever==
	Name weight geometry given		Name weight geometry given

Fungor: Weapon Geomotery moved to Weapon Geometry: because words are hard ok

Fungor — Mon, 12 Jun 2017 18:44:04 GMT

Weapon Geomotery moved to Weapon Geometry: because words are hard ok

←Older revision

Revision as of 18:44, 12 June 2017

Fungor at 18:43, 12 June 2017

Fungor — Mon, 12 Jun 2017 18:43:22 GMT

←Older revision		Revision as of 18:43, 12 June 2017
Line 1:		Line 1:
-	Some data points about weapons.	+	Some data points about weapons weight.

	==Tremendous==		==Tremendous==
-	Sinbyen shimmering violet adamantite weapons	+	Name weight geometry given
		+	*Sinbyen shimmering violet adamantite weapons
	Giant Hammer 172.00 2 across, 12.5 long		Giant Hammer 172.00 2 across, 12.5 long
	Giant Scythe 76.80 0.95 across, 26 long		Giant Scythe 76.80 0.95 across, 26 long
Line 9:		Line 10:
	Giant Spear 23.35 0.45 across, 31.5 long		Giant Spear 23.35 0.45 across, 31.5 long
	Giant Sword 13.45 0.8 wide, 0.15 tall, 23.5 long		Giant Sword 13.45 0.8 wide, 0.15 tall, 23.5 long
-	Og Stuff	+	*Og Stuff
	Giant Iron Hammer 277.50 1.95 across, 12 long (from the smith)		Giant Iron Hammer 277.50 1.95 across, 12 long (from the smith)
	Giant Club 117.00 2.75 across, 23.5 long		Giant Club 117.00 2.75 across, 23.5 long
Line 15:		Line 16:
	Giant Obsidian Axe 48.75 0.7 wide, 20 long		Giant Obsidian Axe 48.75 0.7 wide, 20 long
	Giant Iron Sword 37.70 0.95 wide, 0.20 tall, 22 long		Giant Iron Sword 37.70 0.95 wide, 0.20 tall, 22 long
-	Musspleheim	+	*Musspleheim
	Giant Fiery Steel Mace 292.50 2.20 across, 12 long		Giant Fiery Steel Mace 292.50 2.20 across, 12 long
	... Hammer 218.50 0.90 across, 12 long		... Hammer 218.50 0.90 across, 12 long
Line 23:		Line 24:
	Hlerbani 201.50 2.35 across, 13 long (oak and lodestone mace)		Hlerbani 201.50 2.35 across, 13 long (oak and lodestone mace)
	Eldrsleggja 68.55 2.15 across, 13 long (fiery granite hammer, 1/3rd the weight of other hammers?)		Eldrsleggja 68.55 2.15 across, 13 long (fiery granite hammer, 1/3rd the weight of other hammers?)
-	Shadow Tower	+	*Shadow Tower
-	Ektharnor Gadel 189.00 3.35 across, 21 long (Giant Scourge)	+	Ektharnor Gadel 189.00 3.35 across, 21 long (Giant Scourge)
-	Kazarithaxai	+	*Kazarithaxai
	I'm too small to test.		I'm too small to test.
	==Great==		==Great==
-	Sinbyen black adamantite weapons	+	Name weight geometry given
		+	*Sinbyen black adamantite weapons
	Great Flail 17.85 0.65 across, 12.5 long		Great Flail 17.85 0.65 across, 12.5 long
	Great Hammer 17.45 0.7 across, 10.5 long		Great Hammer 17.45 0.7 across, 10.5 long
Line 34:		Line 36:
	Greatspear 8.25 0.3 across, 26.5 long		Greatspear 8.25 0.3 across, 26.5 long
	Greatsword 7.10 0.65 wide, 0.15 tall, 18.5 long		Greatsword 7.10 0.65 wide, 0.15 tall, 18.5 long
-	Shadow Tower	+	*Shadow Tower
	Vorpal Blade 3.68 0.65 wide, 0.15 tall, 18.5 long		Vorpal Blade 3.68 0.65 wide, 0.15 tall, 18.5 long
	Magma Maul 21.35 0.95 across, 9.90 long		Magma Maul 21.35 0.95 across, 9.90 long
	Singularity Staff 17.40 0.35 across, 21.5 long		Singularity Staff 17.40 0.35 across, 21.5 long
	Daemonicus Omega 26.55 0.95 wide, 20.5 long (Reanada Halberd)		Daemonicus Omega 26.55 0.95 wide, 20.5 long (Reanada Halberd)
-	Storm Rock	+	*Storm Rock
	Bronze Great Flail 28.45 0.60 across, 12 long		Bronze Great Flail 28.45 0.60 across, 12 long
	Bronze Greataxe 27.15 0.85 wide, 12.5 long		Bronze Greataxe 27.15 0.85 wide, 12.5 long
	Mithril Greataxe 8.79 0.65 wide, 14 long		Mithril Greataxe 8.79 0.65 wide, 14 long
-	LH Grebor's Smithy	+	*LH Grebor's Smithy
	Iron Greatsword 19.85 0.80 wide, 0.20 tall, 17 long		Iron Greatsword 19.85 0.80 wide, 0.20 tall, 17 long
	==Medium or whatever==		==Medium or whatever==
-	Shadow Tower	+	Name weight geometry given
		+	*Shadow Tower
	Heavensfire 0.23 0.15 wide, 14.5 long (Longsword?)		Heavensfire 0.23 0.15 wide, 14.5 long (Longsword?)
	Qith's Morning Star 9.95 0.85 across, 5.70 long		Qith's Morning Star 9.95 0.85 across, 5.70 long
	Mithril Spear 5.30 0.20 across, 21.5 long (reanada staticload)		Mithril Spear 5.30 0.20 across, 21.5 long (reanada staticload)
-	Storm Rock misc	+	*Storm Rock misc
	Bronze Flail 20.85 0.70 across, 6.40 long		Bronze Flail 20.85 0.70 across, 6.40 long
	Mithril Flail 15.45 0.70 across, 6.45 long		Mithril Flail 15.45 0.70 across, 6.45 long


-	Hypothesis	+	Hypothesis (read as: my whiny complaint)
-	*Hammers are stupidly heavy and it's dumb and upsets me so I want someone to change it.	+	*Hammers are stupidly heavy and it's dumb and upsets me and I want someone to change it.
		+	*Axe = stick with a heavy blade on it
		+	*Mace = stick with a heavy turd on it
		+	*Hammer = stick with a heavy cylinder on it
		+	*I expect a hammer or mace's weight relative to an axe's to be between 1.0 and 1.5ish?
		+	*If I made a "bigger" weapon for a larger/stronger wielder I'd use a longer haft and a heavier blade/turd/cylinder but expect the weight ratios to stay the same. Unless I was in Azeroth.
		+
		+	Process
		+	*I collected some weapons and looked at them while holding them.

	Conclusions		Conclusions
-	*Material obviously plays a huge role, compare Giant fiery steel mace with Hlerbani for a 90kg difference, or adamantite vs. fiery steel weapons.	+	*Material obviously plays a huge role in weight, compare Giant fiery steel mace with Hlerbani for a 90kg difference, or adamantite vs. fiery steel weapons.
-	*A lot of weapons don't have distinct haft-materials because lazy, this can affect different weapons more or less based on geometry.	+	*A lot of weapons don't have distinct haft-materials, this can affect different weapons more or less based on geometry. I have no idea to what degree this matters.
-	*Weapon size category either has nothing, or very little to do with mass. (this isn't a surprise, but it's dumb is what I'm saying).	+	*Weapon size category either has nothing, or very little to do with weight. (this isn't a surprise, but it's dumb is what I'm saying).
-	*Square Cube rule seems to be applying to certain weapons as their dimensions are scaled up in a nonsense way.	+	Square Cube rule seems to be affecting certain weapons more than others as their dimensions are scaled up. ((Great Hammer) = 2.45 (Greatsword). (Giant Hammer) = 12.78 * (Giant Sword) lolwat)
		+
		+	Not addressed here
		+	*There are a lot of materials that are practically weightless, and that's also dumb nonsense.
		+	*Weapon weight doesn't directly impact ratings while using it (aside from encumbering you), that's also weird. (maybe it does actually, just speculation on my part)

Fungor: made a page

Fungor — Mon, 12 Jun 2017 18:23:24 GMT

made a page

New page

Some data points about weapons.

==Tremendous==
Sinbyen shimmering violet adamantite weapons
Giant Hammer 172.00 2 across, 12.5 long
Giant Scythe 76.80 0.95 across, 26 long
Giant Axe 57.35 1.35 wide, 22 long
Giant Flail 72.60 1.03 across, 18.5 long
Giant Spear 23.35 0.45 across, 31.5 long
Giant Sword 13.45 0.8 wide, 0.15 tall, 23.5 long
Og Stuff
Giant Iron Hammer 277.50 1.95 across, 12 long (from the smith)
Giant Club 117.00 2.75 across, 23.5 long
Giant black oak staff 61.20 1.80 across, 27 long (Bilga, material probably varies)
Giant Obsidian Axe 48.75 0.7 wide, 20 long
Giant Iron Sword 37.70 0.95 wide, 0.20 tall, 22 long
Musspleheim
Giant Fiery Steel Mace 292.50 2.20 across, 12 long
... Hammer 218.50 0.90 across, 12 long
... Axe 87.85 1.40 wide, 21.5 long
... Sword 21.40 0.85 wide, 0.20 tall, 23 long
Giant Blackwood Staff 24.35 1.75 across, 27 long
Hlerbani 201.50 2.35 across, 13 long (oak and lodestone mace)
Eldrsleggja 68.55 2.15 across, 13 long (fiery granite hammer, 1/3rd the weight of other hammers?)
Shadow Tower
Ektharnor Gadel 189.00 3.35 across, 21 long (Giant Scourge)
Kazarithaxai
I'm too small to test.
==Great==
Sinbyen black adamantite weapons
Great Flail 17.85 0.65 across, 12.5 long
Great Hammer 17.45 0.7 across, 10.5 long
Greataxe 9.04 0.65 wide, 14 long
Greatspear 8.25 0.3 across, 26.5 long
Greatsword 7.10 0.65 wide, 0.15 tall, 18.5 long
Shadow Tower
Vorpal Blade 3.68 0.65 wide, 0.15 tall, 18.5 long
Magma Maul 21.35 0.95 across, 9.90 long
Singularity Staff 17.40 0.35 across, 21.5 long
Daemonicus Omega 26.55 0.95 wide, 20.5 long (Reanada Halberd)
Storm Rock
Bronze Great Flail 28.45 0.60 across, 12 long
Bronze Greataxe 27.15 0.85 wide, 12.5 long
Mithril Greataxe 8.79 0.65 wide, 14 long
LH Grebor's Smithy
Iron Greatsword 19.85 0.80 wide, 0.20 tall, 17 long
==Medium or whatever==
Shadow Tower
Heavensfire 0.23 0.15 wide, 14.5 long (Longsword?)
Qith's Morning Star 9.95 0.85 across, 5.70 long
Mithril Spear 5.30 0.20 across, 21.5 long (reanada staticload)
Storm Rock misc
Bronze Flail 20.85 0.70 across, 6.40 long
Mithril Flail 15.45 0.70 across, 6.45 long

Hypothesis
*Hammers are stupidly heavy and it's dumb and upsets me so I want someone to change it.

Conclusions
*Material obviously plays a huge role, compare Giant fiery steel mace with Hlerbani for a 90kg difference, or adamantite vs. fiery steel weapons.
*A lot of weapons don't have distinct haft-materials because lazy, this can affect different weapons more or less based on geometry.
*Weapon size category either has nothing, or very little to do with mass. (this isn't a surprise, but it's dumb is what I'm saying).
*Square Cube rule seems to be applying to certain weapons as their dimensions are scaled up in a nonsense way.