Racial viability

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-I thought it might be nice to provide a visual representation of the original author's ideas. The outlier in the far upper left corner is the kobold race, and amberites are in the far lower right. I know it's difficult to determine which dot represents which race, and it's not any easier after I had to cut off the top and bottom of the list. Those are Chaosborn in orange, Tuatha in pink, and Fomor in green nearest to Amberites in the lower left, and I believe those are Faries (Pixies) in the positive assimilativity but still rather far to the right in the green dot, with Aethoss below them and to the right.+I thought it might be nice to provide a visual representation of the original author's ideas. The outlier in the far upper left corner is the kobold race, and amberites are in the far lower right. I know it's difficult to determine which dot represents which race, and it's not any easier after I had to cut off the top and bottom of the list. Those are Chaosborn in orange, Tuatha in pink, and Fomor in green nearest to Amberites in the lower right, and I believe those are Faries (Pixies) in the positive assimilativity but still rather far to the right in the green dot, with Aethoss below them and to the right.
[[Image:LS_Chart.png]] [[Image:LS_Chart.png]]
 +
 + List by Effective Total
 + ----------------------
 + Starting Points Remaining Effective Total Assimilativity
 + [[Amberite]]: 657 190 847 -20
 + [[Fomor]]: 532 173 705 -13
 + [[Tuatha]]: 543 143 686 -13
 + [[Chaosborn]]: 476 194 670 -15
 + [[Aethoss]]: 484 162 646 -1
 + [[Pixie]]: 531 99 630 2
 + [[Rachnei]]: 442 163 605 -5
 + [[Dana]]: 506 87 593 -1
 + [[Minotaur]]: 424 155 579 -3
 + [[Quess]]: 458 115 573
 + [[Zuth]]: 413 160 573 -6
 + [[Phaethon]]: 436 134 570 -1
 + [[Imp]]: 440 127 567 -5
 + [[Kedeth]]: 408 158 566 -8
 + [[Gnome]]: 459 104 563 8
 + [[Drow]]: 466 96 562 -2
 + [[Lothar]]: 441 118 559 -3
 + [[Thond]]: 437 122 559 6
 + [[Nyloc]]: 418 140 558
 + [[Kielleth]]: 425 129 554
 + [[Sekh]]: 412 140 552 -1
 + [[Troll]]: 410 139 549 -2
 + [[Duergar]]: 429 119 548 -1
 + [[Kentaur]]: 413 134 547
 + [[Svirfneblin]]: 435 112 547
 + [[Aviar]]: 402 144 546 -1
 + [[Domandan]]: 381 161 542
 + [[Garou]]: 411 131 542
 + [[Urln]]: 394 142 536 2
 + [[Llelimin]]: 400 126 526 6
 + [[Invae]]: 394 131 525 -1
 + [[Sleestak]]: 375 148 523
 + [[Advenus]]: 379 140 519 -4
 + [[Orc]]: 369 150 519
 + [[Dracon]]: 365 145 510 -2
 + [[Human]]: 354 155 509 10
 + [[Slaan]]: 351 150 501 -1
 + [[Goblin]]: 346 150 496 15
 + [[Skaven]]: 371 120 491
 + [[Yeti]]: 371 110 481
 + [[Ogre]]: 358 110 468
 + [[Kobold]]: 214 100 314 30
[[User:Einskaldjir|Einskaldjir]] 15:09, 6 November 2014 (EST) [[User:Einskaldjir|Einskaldjir]] 15:09, 6 November 2014 (EST)
[[Category: Guides]] [[Category: Guides]]

Revision as of 17:07, 6 November 2014

Races in Lost Souls begin the game with a varied amount of attributes. In some cases, their effective attribute totals at level one have a counter-intuitive association with their effective total attributes. Following the chart will be an attempt to determine the value of assimilativity in relation to starting attribute totals, taking into consideration the diminishing returns one experiences with developing their attributes throughout their character's life.

Size has been minimized in each circumstance, as the author feels high size in most cases is a burden rather than a benefit. In fact, from a purely functional perspective, the only real benefit size can offer is the wielding of two-handed weapons and tower shields in a single hand, as well as a small size bonus to damage in physical combat (This is false, increased size combined with natural armour produces extremely high damage resistance. -- Marcosy). The loss of ability to dodge attacks beyond the early and mid-game is considered to be highly unrecommended, and is not offset by large hitpoint totals because without methods of healing or regenerating easily, hitpoints become less and less important, and more or less simply a time buffer before you reach the point of fleeing combat. If you are getting noticably hurt, it is likely you can not use your time effectively against that opponent, barring forms of regeneration or healing as mentioned before.

There was a time when attributes were, in a sense "less" meaningful in Lost Souls. Much of the loose association between learning rate - "assimilativity" - and attribute totals were programmed in those days, with only slight variation since. Since the major code upgrade many years ago, which created skill limitations based on attribute totals (specialty access), it has made things very difficult for the player - particularly the new player. Most guilds and associations have very high specialty "ceilings" in only one or two stats, and with the diminished returns that exist, it makes it incredibly difficult to accumulate the kind of power necessary to keep advancing noticeably as one reaches near hero and beyond. Without noticeable advancement, characters have a tendency to stagnate without incredible amounts of time investment, or highly specialized "esoteric" knowledge of the game and world.

This table is intended as a guideline to help both new and veteran players find the most "efficient" races from a power-gaming standpoint, and nothing more. Those who receive pleasure from the game by playing unique or different characters are often punished significantly in actual character strength - and while I believe it is interesting to play the game in this manner, I feel that for many players, not only do they want to play unique character types - they want to play unique character types with some degree of long-term viability, without stagnation or continuing to hunt the same handful of areas eternally - which eventually becomes almost a meaningless exercise from an experience accumulation standpoint. Certain mechanisms have been put in place to provide a break in the mindless murdering of the world's denizens, but they have yet to truly address the underlying issues, and besides, they are almost completely guild dependent.

Of course, this comes from a player who has spent far too long scouring the world, and truly, my enjoyment of the game probably ended long ago.

Note: The minimum size value has not been included in the math, as different size values mean differently depending on the race in question.

Alphabetical List
-----------------
		Starting	Points Remaining	Effective Total		Assimilativity
Advenus:	379		140			519			-4
Aethoss:	484		162			646			-1
Amberite:	657		190			847			-20
Aviar:		402		144			546			-1
Chaosborn:	476		194			670			-15
Dana:		506		87			593			-1
Domandan:	381		161			542			
Dracon:		365		145			510			-2
Drow:		466		96			562			-2
Duergar:	429		119			548			-1
Faerie:		531		99			630			2
Fomor:		532		173			705			-13
Garou:		411		131			542			
Gnome:		459		104			563			8
Goblin:		346		150			496			15
Human:		354		155			509			10
Imp:		440		127			567			-5
Invae:		394		131			525			-1
Kedeth:		408		158			566			-8
Kentaur:	413		134			547			
Kielleth:	425		129			554			
Kobold:		214		100			314			30
Llelimin:	400		126			526			6
Lothar:		441		118			559			-3
Minotaur:	424		155			579			-3
Nyloc:		418		140			558			
Ogre:		358		110			468			
Orc:		369		150			519			
Phaethon:	436		134			570			-1
Quess:		458		115			573			
Rachnei:	442		163			605			-5
Sekh:		412		140			552			-1
Skaven:		371		120			491
Slaan:		351		150			501			-1
Sleestak:	375		148			523
Svirfneblin:	435		112			547
Thond:		437		122			559			6
Troll:		410		139			549			-2
Tuatha:		543		143			686			-13
Urln:		394		142			536			2
Yeti:		371		110			481
Zuth:		413		160			573			-6
List by Assimilativity
----------------------
Kobold:		214		100			314			30
Goblin:		346		150			496			15
Human:		354		155			509			10
Gnome:		459		104			563			8
Llelimin:	400		126			526			6
Thond:		437		122			559			6
Faerie:		531		99			630			2
Urln:		394		142			536			2
Domandan:	381		161			542			
Garou:		411		131			542			
Kentaur:	413		134			547			
Kielleth:	425		129			554			
Nyloc:		418		140			558			
Ogre:		358		110			468			
Orc:		369		150			519			
Quess:		458		115			573			
Skaven:		371		120			491
Sleestak:	375		148			523
Svirfneblin:	435		112			547
Yeti:		371		110			481
Aethoss:	484		162			646			-1
Aviar:		402		144			546			-1
Dana:		506		87			593			-1
Duergar:	429		119			548			-1
Invae:		394		131			525			-1
Phaethon:	436		134			570			-1
Sekh:		412		140			552			-1
Slaan:		351		150			501			-1
Dracon:		365		145			510			-2
Drow:		466		96			562			-2
Troll:		410		139			549			-2
Lothar:		441		118			559			-3
Minotaur:	424		155			579			-3
Advenus:	379		140			519			-4
Imp:		440		127			567			-5
Rachnei:	442		163			605			-5
Zuth:		413		160			573			-6
Kedeth:		408		158			566			-8
Fomor:		532		173			705			-13
Tuatha:		543		143			686			-13
Chaosborn:	476		194			670			-15
Amberite:	657		190			847			-20 

The most important point of all I would like to reiterate, is the problem of diminishing returns. Because each guild typically only utilizes one or two attributes, you will eventually hit a ceiling. The problem is that, while growth is quick for almost any character early on, you will quickly come to recognize how difficult it is to receive just -one- more specialty point in a given attribute. It may take you literally ten plus hours of focused play time to earn 20 more skill points (one specialty access after five specialty points.) For fighters, this may not be an insignificant amount if it is in a major skill related to combat. However, for magic users, any given spell may use five or six different skills - many of which come from the same statistic. Thus, growth is incredibly unnoticeable even with significant time investment -eventually-. This system does lend itself to jack-of-all-trade builds, however, if you speak to the most successful players, you will find that there are specific "builds" and "guilds" that are particularly powerful.

In the old system, all utilized skills continued to grow forever. This made -all- characters viable. This is not to say the specialty system is flawed, but it is this player's opinion that considerable thought should be placed in allowing for growth beyond specialty in given skills over time.

For instance, a solution to the problem would be a meshing of the systems. Consider specialization a form of focusing one's capacities into a specialized area, allowing for quick growth - but over time, even after you've reached the maximum of a given specialty, you would surpass it with "bonus" skill points that, even given an increase or decrease in specialty, would stay attached to the skill forever.

As a thought experiment, let us consider the Kobold. He begins the game at minimum size with 314 attribute points. Spread evenly across all attributes, he will have approximately 52 points in each. Every time he levels, he will receive 5 stat points. By the time he is a hero (level fifty) he will have 564 stat points total - a similar amount to a level one Gnome, who will only level about twice as slow as the Kobold in the first place. But that's not precisely the case. In fact, the Kobold will still have worse statistics than a level one gnome, because of diminishing returns. Even if he spread his points evenly for all 50 levels, he will likely have lost 10-20% of the total points, if not more.

At this point, we must consider - how hard would it be for a level one gnome to level (or for a player to keep interest in the game) if he required nearly a million experience per level?




I thought it might be nice to provide a visual representation of the original author's ideas. The outlier in the far upper left corner is the kobold race, and amberites are in the far lower right. I know it's difficult to determine which dot represents which race, and it's not any easier after I had to cut off the top and bottom of the list. Those are Chaosborn in orange, Tuatha in pink, and Fomor in green nearest to Amberites in the lower right, and I believe those are Faries (Pixies) in the positive assimilativity but still rather far to the right in the green dot, with Aethoss below them and to the right.

Image:LS_Chart.png

List by Effective Total
----------------------
                Starting	Points Remaining	Effective Total	        Assimilativity
Amberite:	657		190			847			-20 
Fomor:		532		173			705			-13
Tuatha:		543		143			686			-13
Chaosborn:	476		194			670			-15
Aethoss:	484		162			646			-1
Pixie:		531		99			630			2
Rachnei:	442		163			605			-5
Dana:		506		87			593			-1
Minotaur:	424		155			579			-3
Quess:		458		115			573			
Zuth:		413		160			573			-6
Phaethon:	436		134			570			-1
Imp:		440		127			567			-5
Kedeth:		408		158			566			-8
Gnome:		459		104			563			8
Drow:		466		96			562			-2
Lothar:		441		118			559			-3
Thond:		437		122			559			6
Nyloc:		418		140			558			
Kielleth:	425		129			554			
Sekh:		412		140			552			-1
Troll:		410		139			549			-2
Duergar:	429		119			548			-1
Kentaur:	413		134			547			
Svirfneblin:	435		112			547
Aviar:		402		144			546			-1
Domandan:	381		161			542			
Garou:		411		131			542			
Urln:		394		142			536			2
Llelimin:	400		126			526			6
Invae:		394		131			525			-1
Sleestak:	375		148			523
Advenus:	379		140			519			-4
Orc:		369		150			519			
Dracon:		365		145			510			-2
Human:		354		155			509			10
Slaan:		351		150			501			-1
Goblin:		346		150			496			15
Skaven:		371		120			491
Yeti:		371		110			481
Ogre:		358		110			468			
Kobold:		214		100			314			30

Einskaldjir 15:09, 6 November 2014 (EST)

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