Talk:Zetesai
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Discussion kickoff
Now that there are multiple of us actively trying to discover stuff in this guild I think this page can be fruitful for us to coordinate on some stuff. My first order of business is that I want to formally establish "what skills matter", and also establish a standard means for us to benchmark those skills for easier comparison.
I suspect the existence of some guild unlocks that require skill specs obtained either from bonds themselves, or from additional affils/autodidaction, but for the time being I'd like to put forward the following hypothesis: Max spec access granted by the guild is a meaningful indicator of it's importance for learning new morphologies. That in mind, my zetesai is an exomak wandslinger chaosborn so my transposition may be slightly inaccurate (some help here would be appreciated).
I've taken the liberty of splitting these up into some rough categories that I think may be relevant.
Zet skills organized by max spec access and category
Scholarly skill access:
- 20 Animal Lore, Biology, Cosmology
- 10 Insect Lore
- 8 Poison Lore, Gem Lore, Philosophy
- 2 Arcane Lore, Plant Lore, Elder Lore, Legend Lore, Astrology, Metaphysics, Metapsychology, Pataphysics, Physics, Psychology
Generic nerd skill access:
- 10 Scholarship, Critical Thinking, Literacy, Drawing, Memory
Bond growth skill access:
- 15 Empathy, Enchantment
- 10 Introspection
- 2 Mathematics
Medical and fieldcraft, and general adventuring skill access:
- 10 Anatomy, Chirurgery, First Aid, Diagnosis, Cartography, Steadiness, Exoma Fieldcraft, Space Fieldcraft, Umbral Fieldcraft
- 8 Orienteering, Foraging Navigation
- 5 Somatesthesia
Other skills:
We've been told explicitly that these skills impact valence, but not by how much. In the case of animaphrasty, we've also been told that it does NOT impact anything else.
- 5 Eudaimonia
- 13 Animaphrasty
- 2 Centering, Equilibrium
Conjuration minimum spec removed (as of 28/01/2022).
- 4 Conjuration
relevant quote, don't go nuts on this one
[2022 Jan 28 21:02] ( Zetesai Channel Crasher Marcosy ) at present theriophrasty is not used by anything in the guild, period [2022 Jan 28 21:02] ( Zetesai Channel Crasher Marcosy ) that might change in the future but i doubt it [2022 Jan 28 21:02] ( Zetesai Channel Crasher Marcosy ) but logically it is a thing your character would need in order to create bonds with animals
- 13 Theriophrasty
Data Standardization Proposal
None of us have seen then yet, but we've been told that there is a specific chrondiptera morphology unlocked at 250 insect lore, which is a pretty huge hint both about the nature of the unlocks, and how to reach them.
We can theorize that a polypid morphology exists at some amount of gem lore, a giftrager morphology at some amount of poison lore, and almost certainly some more general ones with sufficient levels of combined animal lore/biology/cosmology with other skills no doubt contributing in part or in entirety to other specific morphologies.
Since these formulas are not visible to us and it will require a lot of roughly analogous data points to refine them I propose that we set a standard format for data that we immediately post whenever we reach an unlock breakpoint.
set alias zetlore to show skill animal lore, skill biology, skill cosmology, skill insect lore, skill poison lore, skill gem lore, skill philosophy, skill plant lore, skill elder lore, skill legend lore set alias zetvalence to show skill eudaimonia, skill animaphrasty, skill centering, skill equilibrium
We should work together to have these aliases include every data point we know to be relevant as well as every data point we think might be relevant. Since the only way we can learn anything concrete is to reach a new unlock threshold as the direct result of a known event it is absolutely critical that we pay attention to what's going on and pool our data.
Frustratingly, skills aren't the only relevant factor, so any data we collect will be subject to huge swings based on each of our individual progress with forming and mastering different bond and familiar types. These should also be included in our data postings. So here's my first draft for a standard data point, points we collect should be copy-pasted and added to the end of this document.
"set alias zetdata to help autometotic animaphresis;show level, quest points, exploration points;zetlore;zetvalence" or set alias zetdata to show level, quest points, exploration points, skill animal lore, skill biology, skill cosmology, skill insect lore, skill poison lore, skill gem lore, skill philosophy, skill plant lore, skill elder lore, skill legend lore, skill eudaimonia, skill animaphrasty, skill centering, skill equilibrium
Incarnos: character's name Unlock: The thing that got unlocked Unlock Event: The thing I was doing that I believe caused this unlock (skill train, bond growth, exploration, attribute development? death? arbitrage? whatever I don't know) Current Bonds: Familiar_type via Bond_Type at xx%, Previous Bond Experience: Pyx via Telo-Exogenic Archsymbiosis to 100%, Jing Shen via Telo-Exogenic Archsymbiosis to 109% Known Morphologies: Telo-Exogenic Archsymbiosis, Temno-Exogenic Archsymbiosis, and Poly-Exogenic Archsymbiosis Multivalence: one You are level sixty-five. You have one hundred eighty-one quest points, 35.8% of the total possible. You have achieved twenty-three thousand nine hundred fifty-six exploration points, 78.8% of the total possible. You are an amazing ninth-degree scholar of animal lore (241). You are a fairly adept third-degree biologist (90). You are an adept second-degree cosmologist (97). You are a competent scholar of insect lore (38). You are an inept scholar of poison lore (17). You are a competent scholar of gem lore (39). You are a competent philosopher (39). You are a competent scholar of plant lore (38). You are a competent scholar of elder lore (39). You are a competent scholar of legend lore (40). You are a fairly competent eudaimoniast (35). You are a prodigious third-degree animaphrast (150). You are a masterful second-degree practitioner of centering (119), though you appear to be effectively functioning at an incredible level (199). You are a masterful second-degree practitioner of equilibrium (120), though you appear to be effectively functioning at an incredible level (200).
If anyone has any ideas for relevant fields that should be added, or think any should be removed then lets have the discussion on this page/the guild channel. I think it's important that we all agree on a standard for easier comparison. Maybe I'll make a project or excel sheet for parsing it in the future but we should start collecting data right away. For my part I intend to make a habit of doing a data point at the start and end of each play session to track progress, each time I see a new unlock I'll point my most recent data point, and one immediately following the unlock. --Stride 15:11, 28 January 2022 (EST)
Agun has generously volunteered to do some data analysis work for us over here. So if you'd like to instead use the alias on the following sheet, open up a page there. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Qe2vRHisYbNLgnVN3ugyzSEpr_yxyhjB1NKxPaxG4G0/edit#gid=0
Data points start here
Incarnos: Sifrara Unlock: Initial Sifrara data point 01/28/2022 Unlock Event: N/A. Current Bonds: Chronodiptera via Telo-Exogenic Archsymbiosis at 20-29%, Previous Bond Experience: N/A (lagomorph at 11-19% in VV) Known Morphologies: Telo-Exogenic Archsymbiosis, Temno-Exogenic Archsymbiosis, and Poly-Exogenic Archsymbiosis Multivalence: two You are level twenty-nine. You have twenty-eight quest points, 5.5% of the total possible. You have achieved three thousand three hundred seven exploration points, 10.9% of the total possible. You are a prodigious fifth-degree scholar of animal lore (124). You are an incredible fifth-degree biologist (155). You are a prodigious fifth-degree cosmologist (142). You are an incredible eighth-degree scholar of insect lore (159). You have no ability at all in poison lore. You are an inept scholar of gem lore (20). You are an inept philosopher (19), though you appear to be effectively functioning at a fairly competent level (32). You are an unpracticed scholar of plant lore (28). You are an unpracticed scholar of elder lore (24). You are a fairly competent scholar of legend lore (32). You are a very inept third-degree eudaimoniast (10). You are an incredible fifth-degree animaphrast (200). You are an incredible seventh-degree practitioner of centering (170), though you appear to be effectively functioning at a slightly higher incredible level (190). You are an amazing seventh-degree practitioner of equilibrium (227), though you appear to be effectively functioning at a slightly higher amazing level (252).
Incarnos: Morph Unlock: Initial Morph Data point 01/28/2022 Unlock Event: just chillin Current Bonds: ifish via temno-exogenic archsymbiosis at 10-20% Previous Bond Experience: Pyx via Telo-Exogenic Archsymbiosis to 100%, Jing Shen via Telo-Exogenic Archsymbiosis to 109% Known Morphologies: Telo-Exogenic Archsymbiosis, Temno-Exogenic Archsymbiosis, and Poly-Exogenic Archsymbiosis Multivalence: one You are level sixty-five. You have one hundred eighty-one quest points, 35.8% of the total possible. You have achieved twenty-three thousand nine hundred fifty-eight exploration points, 78.8% of the total possible. You are an amazing eighth-degree scholar of animal lore (218). You are a prodigious third-degree biologist (121). You are an expert second-degree cosmologist (108). You are a competent scholar of insect lore (38). You are an inept scholar of poison lore (17). You are a competent scholar of gem lore (39). You are a competent philosopher (39). You are a competent scholar of plant lore (39). You are a competent scholar of elder lore (39). You are a competent scholar of legend lore (40). You are a fairly competent eudaimoniast (35). You are a prodigious third-degree animaphrast (150). You are a masterful second-degree practitioner of centering (119), though you appear to be effectively functioning at an incredible level (199). You are a masterful second-degree practitioner of equilibrium (120), though you appear to be effectively functioning at an incredible level (200).
Incarnos: Morph Unlock: Metaterrenic Archsymbiosis Morphology Unlock Event: training at Knuric. biology probably. maybe erotic lore? carousing? Current Bonds: ifish via temno-exogenic archsymbiosis at 10-20% Previous Bond Experience: Pyx via Telo-Exogenic Archsymbiosis to 100%, Jing Shen via Telo-Exogenic Archsymbiosis to 109% Known Morphologies: Telo-Exogenic Archsymbiosis, Temno-Exogenic Archsymbiosis, and Poly-Exogenic Archsymbiosis Multivalence: one You are level sixty-five. You have one hundred eighty-one quest points, 35.8% of the total possible. You have achieved twenty-three thousand nine hundred fifty-eight exploration points, 78.8% of the total possible. You are an amazing eighth-degree scholar of animal lore (218). You are a prodigious third-degree biologist (124). You are an expert second-degree cosmologist (108). You are a competent scholar of insect lore (38). You are an inept scholar of poison lore (17). You are a competent scholar of gem lore (39). You are a competent philosopher (39). You are a competent scholar of plant lore (39). You are a competent scholar of elder lore (39). You are a competent scholar of legend lore (40). You are a fairly competent eudaimoniast (35). You are a prodigious third-degree animaphrast (150). You are a masterful second-degree practitioner of centering (119), though you appear to be effectively functioning at an incredible level (199). You are a masterful second-degree practitioner of equilibrium (120), though you appear to be effectively functioning at an incredible level (200).
Incarnos: Takayi Unlock: Metaterrenic Archsymbiosis Morphology Unlock Event: Training animal lore with Damon Current Bonds Pyx via Temno-Exogenic Archsymbiosis at 75% + Chronodiptera via Poly-exogenic Archsymbiosis at 76% Previous Bond Experiences: 100% Gleepli via Telo-Exogenic, 85% Jing Shen via Telo-Exogenic Known Morphologies: Telo-Exogenic Archsymbiosis, Temno-Exogenic Archsymbiosis, and Poly-Exogenic Archsymbiosis (+Metaterrenic Archsymbiosis now) Multivalence: two You are level fifty-three. You have three hundred three quest points, 59.9% of the total possible. You have achieved twenty-one thousand three hundred ninety-one exploration points, 70.3% of the total possible. You are an incredible fourth-degree scholar of animal lore (152). You are a prodigious third-degree biologist (148). You are a prodigious third-degree cosmologist (150). You are a fairly competent scholar of insect lore (35). You are a competent scholar of poison lore (37). You are a competent scholar of gem lore (39). You are a prodigious third-degree philosopher (146), though you appear to be effectively functioning at an incredible level (156). You are a competent scholar of plant lore (39). You are a competent scholar of elder lore (39). You are a competent scholar of legend lore (40). You are a competent nei dan zhiye (36). - Eudaimonia You are a prodigious third-degree animaphrast (138). You are a prodigious third-degree tao yin zhiye (146), though you appear to be effectively functioning at an incredible level (161). - Centering You are a prodigious third-degree wu wei zhiye (149), though you appear to be effectively functioning at an incredible level (154). - Equilibrium
Incarnos: Morph Unlock: Just noticed Valence reached 2 Unlock Event: maybe breaking my complete temno? only noticed this morning, haven't done any training or anything yet. Current Bonds: none Previous Bond Experience: ifish via temno-exogenic to 101% Known Morphologies: Telo-Exogenic, Temno-Exogenic, Poly-Exogenic, and Metaterrenic Multivalence: two You are level sixty-six. You have one hundred eighty-one quest points, 35.8% of the total possible. You have achieved twenty-four thousand one hundred eighty-nine exploration points, 79.5% of the total possible. You are an amazing eighth-degree scholar of animal lore (227). You are a prodigious third-degree biologist (137). You are a masterful second-degree cosmologist (114). You are a competent scholar of insect lore (38). You are an inept scholar of poison lore (17). You are a competent scholar of gem lore (39). You are a competent philosopher (40). You are a competent scholar of plant lore (39). You are a competent scholar of elder lore (39). You are a competent scholar of legend lore (40). You are a proficient third-degree eudaimoniast (54). You are a prodigious third-degree animaphrast (150). You are a masterful second-degree practitioner of centering (119), though you appear to be effectively functioning at an incredible level (199). You are a masterful second-degree practitioner of equilibrium (120), though you appear to be effectively functioning at an incredible level (200).
You are level thirty-two.
You have thirty-one quest points, 6.1% of the total possible. You have achieved three thousand three hundred eighty-one exploration points, 11.1% of the total possible.
Incarnos: Sifrara Unlock: Poly-Anansic Archsymbiosis Unlock Event: Killing a scavdrek, probably training insect lore Current Bonds: Chronodiptera via Telo-exogenic archsymbiosis at 30-39% Previous Bond Experience: N/A (lagomorph at 11-19% in VV) Known Morphologies: Telo-Exogenic, Temno-Exogenic, Poly-Exogenic, Poly-Anansic Multivalence: 2 You are a prodigious fifth-degree scholar of animal lore (137). You are an incredible fifth-degree biologist (157). You are a prodigious fifth-degree cosmologist (146). You are an amazing ninth-degree scholar of insect lore (238). You have no ability at all in poison lore. You are an unpracticed scholar of gem lore (23). You are an inept philosopher (20), though you appear to be effectively functioning at a fairly competent level (32). You are an unpracticed scholar of plant lore (29). You are an unpracticed scholar of elder lore (24). You are a fairly competent scholar of legend lore (32). You are a skilled third-degree eudaimoniast (75). You are an incredible fifth-degree animaphrast (200). You are an incredible seventh-degree practitioner of centering (188), though you appear to be effectively functioning at an amazing level (206). You are an amazing seventh-degree practitioner of equilibrium (234), though you appear to be effectively functioning at a slightly higher amazing level (258).
