User talk:Arafelis

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Arafelis (Talk | contribs)
(New Idea: Categorical Levelless Improvement via CXP & seperate attribute accrual (looonggg...))
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Arafelis (Talk | contribs)
(tabula rasa)

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== Design Philosophy ==

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Games should be fun and challenging. Some games are more challenging than they are fun, and vice-versa, but repetitive actions and arbitrary flaws should be kept to a minimum as they are neither fun nor challenging (they can be addictive, which makes them a boon to subscription-driven 'games,' but that's a different rant and story). Rules and dispositions (we want you/don't want you to ____) should be encouraged mechanically, as unobtrusively as possible. Direct rules which contradict player tendancies with no mechanical elements are a sign of ugly design: for instance, the 'no botting' rule in many MUDs, in which the rule exists simply to require players to perform repetitive actions they could easily automate, and which often lack even the simplest precautions code-wise against scripts. Of course, installing such precautions without clarifying the design philosophy is putting the cart before the horse -- before such changes are made, it is much better to ask WHY the developers want the players to have to perform repetitive actions. Often the answer is simply, "Because we couldn't think of anything better." This is the most damning criticism of all.

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== Levelless System Ideas ==

-

Achievement: The principle methods of achievement in LS are skill and attribute. Skills are achieved through use and the 'in-world' mechanic of trainers, with a maximum proficiency derived by attribute development. Attributes are achieved currently through an 'out of world' mechanic, levelling up.

-

One simple option is to make attributes achieved through an in-world mechanic in a levelless system. You go to the 'gym' or whatever, and spend a certain amount of time to train strength. This is sehr oversimplified. Use, skill development, even diet could all play into this system.

-

It would be elegant but ultimately undesirable. Part of the play experience for games of this type is the ability to monitor progress, set goals, and generally micromanage the character. In a visual game with an unobtrusive UI, this kind of elegance would work well; in LS, it would ultimately make the players feel more like a sideshow, especially since the sort of repetitive actions this sort of system is likely to use can and should be scripted. Autoplayers do not a world make.

-

So that leaves us with explicit mechanical systems. XP is the simplest. Attribute points are bought on a gradual increase, and spent on a slightly sharper increase per stat. Alternately, the two can be factored together. This is actually less desireable, because it creates some math problems and removes some of the sense of interactivity between player and character.

-

One cooperative system worth noting is having attribute points bought at trainers, and having all attribute increases require realtime. This would encourage player logouts if the realtime required did not have to be spent incarnated. This is worthwhile because it's interesting and it requires players to have a life. However, it's not especially in keeping with the spirit of LS, and is underdeveloped.

-

The only problem with using XP is that the system is very linear. XP => Attribute Point. One way to solve this is, of course, to introduce other things XP can be spent on (possibilities: skill increase outside of trainer, other...?). Another is to simply have attribute points accrue directly, bypassing the 'xp' stage.

-

Greater Achievement: A seperate heading for clarity. This refers to the achievement of 'Heroic' and 'Legendary' stature for players. There's no reason to abandon these; in fact, in a levelless system, they can become exceedingly useful. They would depend entirely upon achieving a certain percentage of available QP (maybe 35%/80%; possibly weighted for quest difficulty), much like levels in an earlier iteration of LS were. Since certain quests are much harder than others, this would still provide a meaningful criteria for 'legendary' status. Once the status is achieved, it is permanent for that character, even if new quests are introduced. Achieving the heroic/legendary status would reduce the increase cost for attributes, allowing a brief 'surge' of new capabilities. This mechanic was inspired largely by the 'walking the pattern' aspect of the Amber novels, and retains the important characteristic of levels in a non-trivial fashion. 'Walking the pattern' had more than three stages, however; this might as well.

-

Death: Assuming attribute points are retained, a flat cost of 3 attribute points, chosen at random, could be deducted from the character's current stats. This would also reduce their cost to increase those attributes, just as if they had never been bought in the first place. If this reduces an attribute too low to maintain a particular specialization, one spec point is lost at random on resurrection. This is harsher than the current effects of attribute loss, but the loss isn't a 'drain,' so it's more easily mitigatable.

-

---

-

New idea: Categorical improvement

-

By the way, I just understood the skill system a little while ago and I'm really enamoured with it right now.

-

This is really weird and rough atm, but basically, doing things gives you attribute points directly, either very generalized (.07 attribute points accumulated), partially generalized (.05 physical attribute points accumulated, .02 mental attribute points accumulated -- don't really like physical/mental, non-useful cliche for implimentation, useful for discussion), or specific (.01 Str accumulated, etc); and *additionally* gives XP. Or Character Points. Or who cares what. XP/CP/WTF can be spent on a variety of things, but the principal component is that it differentiates the character. For instance, a relatively small number of CXP could be spent to give the character an unusual eye colour for race. More CXP could be spent on transactional exchanges -- more hp per body segment in exchange for a point of autodidacticism. These two types of CXP expendatures would not occur on a curve (within fixed limits imposed by what the character has available transactionally and perhaps artifical maximums for balance purposes). Lastly, CXP could be spent for direct improvements, including but not limited to stat points. For instance, if CXP accumulated at a relatively slow rate, 100 points might buy the character a 1 point maximum increase for a fixed specialization, or 300 might buy a point of permanent astral perception, etc (for comparison, cosmetic-type changes would cost on this scale ~5-20 and transactional exchanges would cost ~25-75). Additionally, all changes would incur a slight curve and changes within a general area would incur a steeper curve within that area.

-

Seperate attribute point accruals are still needed to avoid making CXP -> attribute point the most optimal decision. CXP costs for improvement type changes, and the improvement type changes made available, should be limiting enough to emphasize the role of CXP as a method for distinguishing rather than simply maximizing the character (although a certain amount of this is to be expected, attribute and specialty point choices relative to guild would remain the principal method).

-

== Random ==

-

It'd be really cool if atami could develop abilities somehow. To a limited extent, this is already possible in the field of racial choice; when heroic/legendary stature is achieved, new racial options open up. The sort of abilities developed could be very trite, like giving all incarnations a bonus maximum skill specialization or decreasing the cost of a particular attribute. They could instead refer to strictly character creation effects (the maximum starting attribute limit for all attributes for all races is increased 5%, with no increase in starting points, or similar. New cosmetic options at creation for characters is likewise a possibility.) It seems that non-trite options could also be created, but my imagination only runs so far before it runs out of breath.

User talk:Arafelis

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-== Design Philosophy ==
-Games should be fun and challenging.  Some games are more challenging than they are fun, and vice-versa, but repetitive actions and arbitrary flaws should be kept to a minimum as they are neither fun nor challenging (they can be addictive, which makes them a boon to subscription-driven 'games,' but that's a different rant and story).  Rules and dispositions (we want you/don't want you to ____) should be encouraged mechanically, as unobtrusively as possible.  Direct rules which contradict player tendancies with no mechanical elements are a sign of ugly design: for instance, the 'no botting' rule in many MUDs, in which the rule exists simply to require players to perform repetitive actions they could easily automate, and which often lack even the simplest precautions code-wise against scripts.  Of course, installing such precautions without clarifying the design philosophy is putting the cart before the horse -- before such changes are made, it is much better to ask WHY the developers want the players to have to perform repetitive actions.  Often the answer is simply, "Because we couldn't think of anything better."  This is the most damning criticism of all.
-== Levelless System Ideas ==
-Achievement: The principle methods of achievement in LS are skill and attribute.  Skills are achieved through use and the 'in-world' mechanic of trainers, with a maximum proficiency derived by attribute development.  Attributes are achieved currently through an 'out of world' mechanic, levelling up.
-One simple option is to make attributes achieved through an in-world mechanic in a levelless system.  You go to the 'gym' or whatever, and spend a certain amount of time to train strength.  This is sehr oversimplified.  Use, skill development, even diet could all play into this system.
-It would be elegant but ultimately undesirable.  Part of the play experience for games of this type is the ability to monitor progress, set goals, and generally micromanage the character.  In a visual game with an unobtrusive UI, this kind of elegance would work well; in LS, it would ultimately make the players feel more like a sideshow, especially since the sort of repetitive actions this sort of system is likely to use can and should be scripted.  Autoplayers do not a world make.
-So that leaves us with explicit mechanical systems.  XP is the simplest.  Attribute points are bought on a gradual increase, and spent on a slightly sharper increase per stat.  Alternately, the two can be factored together.  This is actually less desireable, because it creates some math problems and removes some of the sense of interactivity between player and character.
-One cooperative system worth noting is having attribute points bought at trainers, and having all attribute increases require realtime.  This would encourage player logouts if the realtime required did not have to be spent incarnated.  This is worthwhile because it's interesting and it requires players to have a life.  However, it's not especially in keeping with the spirit of LS, and is underdeveloped.
-The only problem with using XP is that the system is very linear.  XP => Attribute Point.  One way to solve this is, of course, to introduce other things XP can be spent on (possibilities: skill increase outside of trainer, other...?).  Another is to simply have attribute points accrue directly, bypassing the 'xp' stage.
-Greater Achievement: A seperate heading for clarity.  This refers to the achievement of 'Heroic' and 'Legendary' stature for players.  There's no reason to abandon these; in fact, in a levelless system, they can become exceedingly useful.  They would depend entirely upon achieving a certain percentage of available QP (maybe 35%/80%; possibly weighted for quest difficulty), much like levels in an earlier iteration of LS were.  Since certain quests are much harder than others, this would still provide a meaningful criteria for 'legendary' status.  Once the status is achieved, it is permanent for that character, even if new quests are introduced.  Achieving the heroic/legendary status would reduce the increase cost for attributes, allowing a brief 'surge' of new capabilities.  This mechanic was inspired largely by the 'walking the pattern' aspect of the Amber novels, and retains the important characteristic of levels in a non-trivial fashion.  'Walking the pattern' had more than three stages, however; this might as well.
-Death: Assuming attribute points are retained, a flat cost of 3 attribute points, chosen at random, could be deducted from the character's current stats.  This would also reduce their cost to increase those attributes, just as if they had never been bought in the first place.  If this reduces an attribute too low to maintain a particular specialization, one spec point is lost at random on resurrection.  This is harsher than the current effects of attribute loss, but the loss isn't a 'drain,' so it's more easily mitigatable.
----
-New idea: Categorical improvement
-By the way, I just understood the skill system a little while ago and I'm really enamoured with it right now.
-This is really weird and rough atm, but basically, doing things gives you attribute points directly, either very generalized (.07 attribute points accumulated), partially generalized (.05 physical attribute points accumulated, .02 mental attribute points accumulated -- don't really like physical/mental, non-useful cliche for implimentation, useful for discussion), or specific (.01 Str accumulated, etc); and *additionally* gives XP.  Or Character Points.  Or who cares what.  XP/CP/WTF can be spent on a variety of things, but the principal component is that it differentiates the character.  For instance, a relatively small number of CXP could be spent to give the character an unusual eye colour for race.  More CXP could be spent on transactional exchanges -- more hp per body segment in exchange for a point of autodidacticism.  These two types of CXP expendatures would not occur on a curve (within fixed limits imposed by what the character has available transactionally and perhaps artifical maximums for balance purposes).  Lastly, CXP could be spent for direct improvements, including but not limited to stat points.  For instance, if CXP accumulated at a relatively slow rate, 100 points might buy the character a 1 point maximum increase for a fixed specialization, or 300 might buy a point of permanent astral perception, etc (for comparison, cosmetic-type changes would cost on this scale ~5-20 and transactional exchanges would cost ~25-75).  Additionally, all changes would incur a slight curve and changes within a general area would incur a steeper curve within that area.
-Seperate attribute point accruals are still needed to avoid making CXP -> attribute point the most optimal decision.  CXP costs for improvement type changes, and the improvement type changes made available, should be limiting enough to emphasize the role of CXP as a method for distinguishing rather than simply maximizing the character (although a certain amount of this is to be expected, attribute and specialty point choices relative to guild would remain the principal method).
-== Random ==
-It'd be really cool if atami could develop abilities somehow.  To a limited extent, this is already possible in the field of racial choice; when heroic/legendary stature is achieved, new racial options open up.  The sort of abilities developed could be very trite, like giving all incarnations a bonus maximum skill specialization or decreasing the cost of a particular attribute.  They could instead refer to strictly character creation effects (the maximum starting attribute limit for all attributes for all races is increased 5%, with no increase in starting points, or similar.  New cosmetic options at creation for characters is likewise a possibility.)  It seems that non-trite options could also be created, but my imagination only runs so far before it runs out of breath.